Head for the Red:
The ongoing adventures and insights of a magician's attempts to accomplish the Great Work.
Monday, April 02, 2012
An Open Letter to the Golden Dawn
Clean your fucking house, you fucking morons. You're supposed to be the fucking MASTERS of the Western Occult Tradition, and you can't even handle your fucking shit.
YOU ARE AS A WHOLE THE MOST PATHETIC MAGICIANS I'VE EVER FUCKING SEEN.
Wait, did I say Magicians? Fuck that. Your magician card is fucking revoked.
Hi, I don't think you should lump all persons whom practice aspects of the Golden Dawn tradition into the nonsense often soap-opera'ed by various leaders of branches of the some of the Golden Dawn..
This is not the first time we've seen loud public schisms in the Golden Dawn. The main difference this time is that Griffin et al aren't nearly so entertaining as Mathers & Crowley, or Crowley & Regardie. This is more like l'Affaire Zink.
Seriously, given the GD's history I wonder if there isn't some kind of terminal flaw in the order's structure and rituals. There seem to have been an inordinate number of these meltdowns. But I'm really only tangentially involved: it's been years since I worked extensively with ceremonial magic and I was never part of any GD order anyway.
There are some beautiful magicians who are members of the GD, (or their offspring), but they ALL shine bright because they left the GD horse shit, and took the core hermetic principles, and applied it to other systems. Every one of them that I've met.
Whether you think these folks are representative of the Golden Dawn or not, they are peddling their bullshit in the name of the Golden Dawn. Under the damned trademark. No matter what doublethink you put into it, they are the Golden Dawn.
And if this post makes some powerful GD magicians upset, by all means, feel free to clean your house.
Gotta agree with you RO. There are many magicians of the GD tradition who I'd be proud to work with, but guys like him fuck the whole thing up. Hes on a serious power trip and anyone who isnt stroking his fire wand is part of a giant conspiracy against AO. Its a damn shame when a guy like Morgan feels he needs to resign because of a peasant on an ego trip
MC, I'm open to the idea that Griffin's got the goods and is the hot shit on a silver platter that he claims to be. But if he were, would Nick be breathing? Would a book like King Over the Water make it to press? You're a magician, you know the power of what we can do outside the lodge with our own established spiritual contacts. Would you put up with any of the shit Griffin has put up with?
I think Morgan and Nick are good folks, but they aren't saints or martyrs either. All of 'em are GD magicians, all of them have access to the same spirits you and I do, and if their mythos were true, even more powerful spirits.
And yet this "occult" war is held in public in letters and blog posts and comments.
It's not like any of the players are morally beyond cursing the fuck out of each other, so I'm sure it's happened. But still the players are all on stage. Ergo, their magic is weak. Pathetic. Sans nuclear option.
Morgan's resignation was just bullshit, more bullshit, he's just playing another game. Apparently Meowzabub isn't strong enough to overthrow his enemies either.
That's not fair RO. Your methods are very powerful, and yet even you have problems sometimes. Your Red Work courses are not finished yet because life keeps getting in the way... Does that mean that the magic is useless?
@Anonymous, I've been Working on this shit for about... 6 years now, really, 7 if you go back to when the shit was starting.
The GD's been at it for over a century.
In less than a decade, I got where I'm at. You ever notice that despite my vitriolic acerbic attacks on magician folk across the spectrum, I don't have any enemies?
I'm not saying I haven't had any, but I am pointing out that I don't have any at the moment, and the ones that crop up in the future won't be around long.
Part of that is because I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong when I'm wrong, and apologize as publicly as I offended. That gets rid of a lot of animosity. Another spiritual power that I figured out in less than a decade that's eluded the GD for over a century.
What's not fair is the mockery of the Western Occult Tradition they've created.
And, anonymous, I'm not saying magicians don't have problems, I'm saying MAGICIANS HANDLE THEIR SHIT.
Shit shouldn't get this bad in magicians' lives. Early on, yeah, as you work through initiations, your life can be a hot mess. But as you progress, you learn to spot the messes before they get hot, and hello, we're magicians. We handle shit in candle-lit rooms with clouds of incense and spoken words to invisible companions.
For over a century, these buffoons have been baptizing peas and stabbing watermelons.
You're absolutely right RO in your last message -- but it doesn't invalidate the whole Golden Dawn system just because Griffin and other act like pricks. I do Golden Dawn work, and I'm one of your students as well. If I suddenly decided to create my own "order" called the "Neoplatonic Order of Hermeticists," and acted like Griffin (and somehow your curses didn't work on me, which even you must admit could happen), that wouldn't invalidate your own work.
The point is, you're comparing _you_, as RO, to the Golden Dawn _as a whole_. That's not fair... The Golden dawn has been around for a century, yes, and has had many members who live up to what you're saying, and many hat haven't. That's part of the nature of being around for a century, even if you're very good (and the GD system is not perfect). Your system has been around for a decade, yet even in that time I bet you've had some students who were jerks.
Dude, I respect the hell outta you, but you realize you're condemning a whole type of magic because some of its members can't get their shit together, right?
I mean, according to what I understand of what you wrote, my magician card is now revoked because I do Golden Dawn stuff, even though I have nothing whatever to do with the Griffin stuff other than failing to curse him... I just don't feel comfortable cursing him, despite him being a prick, just like I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing a brick through his window.
Why are my failures as a magician (allowing people to claim they are part of the GD and act like pricks) somehow a mark that my methods are no good, while your problems as a magician (not finishing your courses in a timely way) just shit that magicians go through?
Besides that, the whole baptizing peas and stabbing melons stuff? Not part of the GD's methods. Wanna know how I know? I have a big book called "The Complete System of Golden Dawn Magic," and it ain't in there... What you're really complaining about is that some people did something that you don't like, so you're going to tar all GD folks with the same brush.
Like I said above, I respect the hell out of you, but that's wack.
Ok, Anonymous, I know who you are I think, and I appreciate where you're coming from.
First, you're the one comparing my Work and my problems to the GD. If that's not fair, don't do it. Since you're one of my students, here's some Hermetic wisdom for free: Hypocrisy saps your strength, robs you of your power. Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. The hypocrite's mind is divided against itself. That's why I apologize when I'm wrong, it makes me stronger.
Second, I'm not invalidating the entire system, I don't have that authority.
I'm pointing out that the GD has established itself in the minds of modern occultists as the outer face of the Masters of the Western Occult Tradition, and yet they can't do shit about their infighting.
I'm calling on the real Secret Chiefs to fix this shit.
Ok, ok, that's fair... I don't want to start fighting with you. If you know who I am, then you know I have good reasons for being anonymous that have nothing to do with cowardice or wanting to trick you (not that you implied that).
Sorry if I went too far... But I'm sure you can see how writing that all GD magicians have their magician cards revoked might make people think you're invalidating the whole system.
By the way, no matter what other things I might say, you're still doing a good thing with your work... Thanks.
I totally understand about being anonymous, and would like to point out that its very necessity is a strong argument against the claims of the Golden Dawn.
I'm really just pointing out that the GD isn't what it claims to be. This post is entirely about undermining the image of the Golden Dawn in the minds of anyone who reads it. Revoking the magician card of the GD? That's pure rhetorical device right there.
I don't want anyone to be able to look at the GD and think, "Hey, that's what Rosicrucian Hermetics is supposed to be." That idea is a huge insult to Rosicrucianism and Hermetics in general.
There's a Christian concept that the GD ought to embrace. It's called REPENTANCE. That's where you recognize that you've done something wrong, and you stop doing it. You turn away from the bad behavior and move towards doing something right instead.
David Griffin and Nick Farrell and Zink and Zalewski and even Morgan owe the entire Western Occult community an apology.
Well, hell, I'm all for undermining the GD as the only source of hermetic rosicrucianism -- I'm a member of SRIA, and we were around LONG before the Golden Dawn, but do we get any respect? No!
(Not to mention all the other completely valid forms of rosicrucianism out there)
Hell I have not been at this horseshit for a century! I only look that old. But i agree the traditional Golden Dawn, done the way it was done, is pants. You have to use it as the start, not the end. I think doing a ritual to take out Griffin is probably a waste of time. I have a few other more important things to do (and write). It is easier just to let his own magic damage him. The guy invoked Maat against everyone and promptly was cast out from civilised society and now has been forced to live in the desert of Nevada. Then he ordered his minions to attack me and King over the Water on Amazon. Book sales went from dismal to brilliant. No doubt for his next trick he will summon a dust demon to eat him. Anyway with him using his magic and energy against himself in this way I don't have to do anything. I can do something more interesting like floss
David Griffin and Nick Farrell and Zink and Zalewski and even Morgan owe the entire Western Occult community an apology.
I take that back. Nick's been presenting the GD as a bunch of philosophers with tech that works, but not the Masters of the Western Occult Tradition, exactly what I think the GD should be doing.
Who ever said the GD were masters of the Western Occult Tradition? I mean, besides the GD? And, what the hell IS the "Western Occult Tradition?" Seriously, there must be at least a few different traditions all shaken (not stirred) together there, and the GD did the most shaking (not stirring). I still practice that "tradition," but I'm not in any way going on like it's the only way, the best way, or whatever. It's a way. The GD has some cool stuff going on. It also has some badly translated Hebrew, some misattributed uh.. well, attributes (can't think of a better word), and it certainly has proven that it does nothing in particular to "balance" the psyche. It's ALWAYS been a contentious bunch of people. Then again, so are magicians, in general. We've both known a couple. Hell, I still get suggestions from Facebook that I should "friend" Alla Ra Adam. I don't even want to "friend" PART of Ra Adam, much less Alla him...
I like the way you take sides RO, so are you implying that Farrell and Morgan are damn martyrs of this? c'mon man, take sides is easy but these two bastards have done their dirty work too.
"I think Morgan and Nick are good folks, but they aren't saints or martyrs either."
My biggest beef here is that the GD claims a huge portion of the mental real estate in the modern occult world. They have claimed to be the outer face of the Rosicrucian current. They claim to represent the Secret Chiefs, and the Secret Chief lore says the Secret Chiefs are the entities guarding and shepherding the spiritual evolution of the entire Western Culture.
I'm siding with Nick and Morgan and any of the others who are saying the GD is NOT the Outer Face of the Rosicrucian Tradition, because obviously, it ain't.
I understand your frustration at the current situation, which, as you point out, has been going on for years, to varying degrees of publicity. I think it frustrates us all, and it reflects badly on both the GD and the wider occult community.
It is, of course, not unique to the GD. The OTO and various other groups have been at each other's throats to some degree or other, and they are just as well-known as the GD is. I think whenever you get a popular "brand name" there will be people who want to abuse it, for money, power, or any other reason. These people are not, as we have all come to realise, real adepts.
I'm sure there are many people within the GD tradition with the capability to magically deal with this situation, but then we get into the questionable area of violating the Neophyte oath not to perform "evil magic" (not that this has stopped some people, and, of course, the term itself is open to debate).
As Nick suggested, often times there is no need to do anything at all, other than concentrate on the Great Work, as we should all be doing.
As others have highlighted, a half dozen people arguing on the internet is not reflective of the entire tradition, which includes thousands of initiates in various orders and many more solitary magicians. Most are too busy with their own lives and the Work to worry about certain unscrupulous individuals.
The GD is just one tradition of a wide variety in the Western Mystery Tradition. It's not necessarily better (or worse) than any of the others.
When I set out to study the Western Ceremonial Tradition, I had bought a lot of their propaganda. I thought they were, if not the whole of the tradition, at least the only extant branch. It might have taken me much, much longer to learn otherwise if I had not been fortunate enough to be pointed toward your blog very early on.
And while I certainly don't think for a minute that nuts like those involved in the current kerfuffle make up the whole, or even the majority, of the tradition ... they do make enough noise (and parallel their historical predecessors well enough) that those of us who are not involved in the tradition ought be forgiven for not knowing the difference. The sane ones need to be louder and more public than the loonies.
Try this experiment: Eliminate Nick if he's such a bad guy. Demonstrate conclusively that the GD is what it claims to be.
You and I both know it's not the manifestation of the true Rosicrucian current. You know the troubles it has. You know the Secret Chiefs for what they really are, and what they are not.
Nick and David aside, are you saying the GD is everything it claims to be?
Going back to the magic itself, is there something in the GD repertoire that has the power to eliminate rogue orders or not? It seems to me that if it were what it claims to be, Nick would have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning. David would have pointed that Wand of Power at him and blasted him a good one. I have no doubt he's done so, and look at the results. "Not a penny the worse," to quote Crowley.
And Morgan's made some noises about oaths stopping him from cursing with black magic. Horse shit, you can eliminate rogue Orders without cursing anyone, without resorting to black magic or demons or any of that shit if you've got the Secret Chiefs at your back.
You know I respect you as a magician, VL. I respect your loyalty, too. I've never kept my opinions about the GD in general a secret. You're one of those beautiful magicians who are members of the GD who shines in spite of their membership, not because of it.
I'm telling it to you like a brother, the way I'd want you to tell it to me: You're supporting an Order that can't handle its shit. If you were up against a brujo defending your family, I'd be shocked if that brujo had a spirit left in their repertoire to conjure by the time you were finished with them. But David, for all his claims of having the Chiefs backing him and giving him new magic, can't stop Nick.
Based on that evidence, the GD doesn't have the power it claims. The mythos is a lie. I'm left wondering, Who's standing by the lie, and who's telling the truth?
Regardless of the state of things in the GD Tradition these days, I will tell you something, up to the point I'm allowed to talk.
If you remember, I'm also Initiate of AMORC and I already reached the Adept level; also I am a Martinist Adept, I'm about to enter in a very Inner Circle too.
In the Archives of these Orders, we have documents I'm not allowed to even mention the names of them (please, don't come out with the shit of "probe it" bla bla) since I have nothing to probe to anyone.
These documents are very old and they come from the sources themselves, rooted in Europe. We have in our possesion Documents tnat exist nowhere else, and Nick and Dave aside, yes, the Golden Dawn is what it claims to be.
Hey, these days you can even read or hear that some guys will say "hey crowley wasn't a bad guy", when in reality he caused a great damage to the Order. On the other hand, the Rosicrucian Tradition has lineage, which I will not discuss here even if someone comes out asking for "proof", that's bullshit, again, I have nothing to probe to anyone.
There are documents that Nick Farrel nor anyone being outsiders of the TMO and AMORC will ever have the opportunity to even see, and I do brag I have them.
By the way, I invite anyone here to go to an AMORC's Lodge to request for "proof"; or even, to request to go into a Martinist Lodge and request for "proof" of the existence of the masters in Europe.
No one, not a single adept will tell anyone nothing; if you don't believe me, locate logdes on the Website and go, i invite you to do that.
Well, if it's going to be old west style, you know me then...my cannons are always ready: trespassers will be prosecuted and punished mercylesly. (by the way, I'm not talking personally to you in this matter)
"Try this experiment: send Nick your material and expect it to be on the web the next day."
Actually the only person who has ever threatened to break copyright was David Griffin who threatened to scan all my books and stick them online. RO's course is protected by copyright law (same as my books). The real AO material was written in 1905 and public domain. Griffin's claim to own the material because he named his order with a similar name (note his research did not extend to using the real AO name) just does not work on the material plane as well as it does in his own head.
When did the possession of documents become the meter by which we judge magicians? There are a lot of "paper adepts" out there. Documents are nice, and they are important for recording and passing on teachings, but having X number of documents does not reveal the magical efficacy of anyone.
In order to be a good magician, you also have to have a good grasp on logic and clear thinking. If you can't see the problems with your claims of secret documents proving the HOGD is the proper Golden Dawn and completely valid, then you don't deserve to be called a Practicus (or any higher grade).
What if I was to say that, as a very high-ranking Mason (which I am by the way non-Masons measure these things), I have been privy to ultra-secret documents which prove, absolutely, that David Griffin is a tremendous con man and only the Ciceros have the True Golden Dawn? And also, the documents say I am a total sex machine?
By your "logic," you would be forced to believe that that was true.
Once you start believing my unsubstantiated unproducible documents, I'll start believing yours. Otherwise, don't bother trying to convince those of us who don't have your ultra-secret personal knowledge.
I believe VL stated explicitly in his post that he would not prove anything, and therefore you are not required to believe anything he says.
All he actually said was that he had some secret documents. What that accomplishes is to lend some weight to his opinion that the GD is the real deal but only to people who already know VL and have respect for his opinions already. RO is apparently one of those people who knows VL and has some respect for him, therefore he may put some value in this statement.
So by all means, don't believe a word he says as he is not trying to convince you. It's no skin off anyone elses back and no logic arguments are being made here.
So by your logic, I can take your materials, head out on the Internet and claim that I am your student and the sole inheritor of your teachings, then start as many shit-storms and flame wars as I want...
And you HAVE to accept it as representative of you, your teachings and your system. Because I'm starting flame wars in your name, therefore *I Am You*.
That is just ridiculous and you know it.
Let me assure you - these people you are talking about are NOT "the Golden Dawn." They are just a few asshats that take the GD material and try to shove it and themselves down everyone else's throats. Frankly, I'm surprised that someone with your intelligence has fallen for a bunch of pure grade-A BS.
I am a member of the Golden Dawn, and I know *hundreds* of fellow Fraters and Sorors. And not a single one of them participates in this online bullshit fest. Yet, you trash the entire tradition because you've been fooled into thinking these jerks "are the Golden Dawn" or somehow represent the tradition merely because they lay claim to it by their own authority.
Hey, if you're enjoying this non-sense, by all means have at it... :(
Oh and I hate to break it to you R.O. - I did not take the GD material and apply it to other systems. I am an active member of the Order to this very day, and I know the system to be just what it claims to be. And it works - very well. For the dozen or so failures you've encountered online, I could introduce you to hundreds of successes.
But you can't see that, because all you ever hear from are the ones who failed the system. The ones who fight their wars with blog posts and internet flames. Those are the failures of the GD, not the success stories.
But I'm beginning to believe you just don't give a crap. You've glommed onto the failures, you think they "are the Golden Dawn", so that's all you're going to see. Very dissapointing for someone who is into the occult, and should know full well that REAL Golden Dawners believe that the Highest is "that which naught by Silence can express." That means you won't hear from them the way you do those who don't get that simple point.
There are people who don´t do the work and people who do it. I left the GD group I was, but never left the practice. I have seen groups in too many areas each one asking to be the "owners of some law". So I just left all but kept contact with the good ones. The "good ones", are not fixed to this or that group. They "are" and this is good.
"But I'm beginning to believe you just don't give a crap. You've glommed onto the failures, you think they "are the Golden Dawn", so that's all you're going to see. Very dissapointing for someone who is into the occult, and should know full well that REAL Golden Dawners believe that the Highest is "that which naught by Silence can express." That means you won't hear from them the way you do those who don't get that simple point."
You're not the first GD guy I've seen saying your GD is the REAL GD and everyone else's is bullshit. I've floated the idea that the GD is like Christianity, with multiple denominations claiming the True Doctrine. DG's HOGD is one denomination, Farrell's MOAA is another, and to a degree every Order will be their own denomination in some ways.
As a Christian, I have to accept that I share my belief with a lot of asshats. I'm ashamed of a lot of them, proud of a few, and I put up with the rest. I've said, "They aren't REAL Christians because..." blah blah blah on many occasions, but they are Christians, just ones I don't like to admit are part of the tribe.
I'd like to see someone clean the GD house the way the Catholics are finally cleaning the pedophiles out of the clergy.
I'd also like to see Christianity get rid of the Westboro Baptist Church, once and for all.
And as long as I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony for each of my daughters, and my kids' college education totally paid for.
"Oh and I hate to break it to you R.O. - I did not take the GD material and apply it to other systems. I am an active member of the Order to this very day, and I know the system to be just what it claims to be. And it works - very well. For the dozen or so failures you've encountered online, I could introduce you to hundreds of successes."
Sigh. I understand what you're saying. I know the GD works for a lot of people. I understand it mentally. It's just that in my heart, where the passions reside, I see the crap and want to set it all on fire.
So it's not fair to condemn the entire GD for the actions of a few. I apologize, and I'll strive not to fall into the trap again in the future.
Sorry, Frater, for getting my panties in a twist yet again. lol But I felt it was time for someone to finally speak up for the Golden Dawn Silent Majority.
Also, as I'm sure you've read on my blog by now, I want to make it clear I'm not calling my Order the real deal at the expense of other Orders. In fact, I'm talking about *individuals* who are taking it upon themselves to be the asshats. The GD Silent Majority - the good folks who have not failed the system - span across all Orders, Independent Temples, study groups and solitary practitioners.
I just wonder why David chose to blow this thing up to these immense proportions. If I'd been in his position I would have just ignored Nick's books, announced the "New Magic" revision by the Secret Chiefs and pivoted into it without skipping a beat. Never let 'em see you sweat. If it comes up, say, "yes, the Chiefs already knew about Farrell's impending book, that would profane our rites, but it will avail them nothing, for we are already in possession of the next revelation..."
Man, he just doesn't get it. He should be playing the "shrouded in secrecy" gambit for all it's worth. It's the natural image to play when you've got Ascended Masters in your program. It's a secret order! Be mysterious! Every facet of your program is shrouded in secrecy. Answer everything with "we can neither confirm nor deny..." These long whiny screeds in multiple blogs - hell, the audience is already making noises about these tirades being unbecoming of a spiritual leader. Does anyone in that Order know anything about marketing? Gah...!
@Joe, It's the persecution complex. It's an integral part of his marketing plan. He needs a bogeyman to hold up as the main bad guy to his Order to keep them convinced they're the underdog. Typical Christian tactic. Even in the States where 80% of the population is Christian, the fundies scream about how there's a war on Christianity and we're under attack. It keeps the flock united. If he keeps them focused on real or imaginary external enemies, they won't pay too much attention to what's going on in their own order.
I also think it impresses the ancient italian wiccan secret chiefs that he's such a badass to stand up against the evil machinations of Nick Farrrell's global conspiracy. They seem to be a provincial lot.
Fascinating discussion. I have some questions and a comment:
1) If David's Secret Chiefs are so wonderful, why can't they put out this "new magic" in several languages?
2) If this "new magic" is so valuable, why doesn't David release the original text instead of having to translate it?
3) If David's Secret Chiefs are so powerful, why do they need David and his cult members to defend their group? Why can't they do it themselves and send "a deadly and hostile current of will?" Or are they just powerless wimps?
4) Why doesn't David talk more about the "Vatican hit squads" he claimed were out to kill him and the leaders of his sex cult? Perhaps he could talk about how his claim almost resulted in getting Pantheacon kicked out of the hotel they have been at for years? Perhaps he could provide some evidence for these Vatican hit squads? Perhaps he could explain why he thought he'd get hundreds of people to hear him at Pantheacon but only about 50 showed up? Perhaps he could mention why he's banned from Pantheacon?
David and his personality cult are attracting people to the G.D., and his antics are sending more people away. But the real inner contacts of the power behind the real Golden Dawn just laugh at his douchery, his identification with Captain Kirk, and his foolishness. When the student is ready the teacher will appear. Those who seek the real Golden Dawn will get past their revulsion at David Griffin and, one day, will find the real Order.
3) Haven't you been paying attention? They're just human adepts, in a Secret Society that's at least similar to the GD. Haven't you noticed NO ONE in the GD curses anyone with magic? No matter how much I beg.
4) LOL! Funny stuff, right there. I'm sure there's a perfectly paranoid delusional reason behind all that. The Vatican Death Squads bought off Pantheacon, ooo, Pantheacon is a FRONT for the Death Squads, an elaborate plot to make him look stupid in public. Their secret plan was to give him a chance to appear in public, thus ensuring their success! :D
Thanks for your comments, your opinions are valued, even if I disagree with them. Please feel free to criticize my ideas and arguments, question my observations, and push back if you disagree.
Whoa, what did I miss? Not that I haven't heard that they've been going downhill for a while now.
ReplyDeleteI feel like there's some sort of backstory I missed. What's going on?
ReplyDeleteFrater,
ReplyDeleteI don't think the people you are referring to are actually representative of the Golden Dawn. Don't fall for the hype created by the big-mouths. ;)
Frater, do you REALLY think the people you're talking about are representative of the Golden Dawn?
ReplyDeletePosts like this are one of the reasons we love you RO.
ReplyDeleteHi, I don't think you should lump
ReplyDeleteall persons whom practice aspects of the Golden Dawn tradition into the
nonsense often soap-opera'ed by various leaders of branches of the some of the Golden Dawn..
This is not the first time we've seen loud public schisms in the Golden Dawn. The main difference this time is that Griffin et al aren't nearly so entertaining as Mathers & Crowley, or Crowley & Regardie. This is more like l'Affaire Zink.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, given the GD's history I wonder if there isn't some kind of terminal flaw in the order's structure and rituals. There seem to have been an inordinate number of these meltdowns. But I'm really only tangentially involved: it's been years since I worked extensively with ceremonial magic and I was never part of any GD order anyway.
Aaron, I'll quote myself from FB on this topic:
ReplyDeleteThere are some beautiful magicians who are members of the GD, (or their offspring), but they ALL shine bright because they left the GD horse shit, and took the core hermetic principles, and applied it to other systems. Every one of them that I've met.
Whether you think these folks are representative of the Golden Dawn or not, they are peddling their bullshit in the name of the Golden Dawn. Under the damned trademark. No matter what doublethink you put into it, they are the Golden Dawn.
And if this post makes some powerful GD magicians upset, by all means, feel free to clean your house.
Gotta agree with you RO. There are many magicians of the GD tradition who I'd be proud to work with, but guys like him fuck the whole thing up. Hes on a serious power trip and anyone who isnt stroking his fire wand is part of a giant conspiracy against AO. Its a damn shame when a guy like Morgan feels he needs to resign because of a peasant on an ego trip
ReplyDeleteMC, I'm open to the idea that Griffin's got the goods and is the hot shit on a silver platter that he claims to be. But if he were, would Nick be breathing? Would a book like King Over the Water make it to press? You're a magician, you know the power of what we can do outside the lodge with our own established spiritual contacts. Would you put up with any of the shit Griffin has put up with?
ReplyDeleteI think Morgan and Nick are good folks, but they aren't saints or martyrs either. All of 'em are GD magicians, all of them have access to the same spirits you and I do, and if their mythos were true, even more powerful spirits.
And yet this "occult" war is held in public in letters and blog posts and comments.
It's not like any of the players are morally beyond cursing the fuck out of each other, so I'm sure it's happened. But still the players are all on stage. Ergo, their magic is weak. Pathetic. Sans nuclear option.
Morgan's resignation was just bullshit, more bullshit, he's just playing another game. Apparently Meowzabub isn't strong enough to overthrow his enemies either.
That's not fair RO. Your methods are very powerful, and yet even you have problems sometimes. Your Red Work courses are not finished yet because life keeps getting in the way... Does that mean that the magic is useless?
ReplyDelete@Anonymous, I've been Working on this shit for about... 6 years now, really, 7 if you go back to when the shit was starting.
ReplyDeleteThe GD's been at it for over a century.
In less than a decade, I got where I'm at. You ever notice that despite my vitriolic acerbic attacks on magician folk across the spectrum, I don't have any enemies?
I'm not saying I haven't had any, but I am pointing out that I don't have any at the moment, and the ones that crop up in the future won't be around long.
Part of that is because I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong when I'm wrong, and apologize as publicly as I offended. That gets rid of a lot of animosity. Another spiritual power that I figured out in less than a decade that's eluded the GD for over a century.
What's not fair is the mockery of the Western Occult Tradition they've created.
And, anonymous, I'm not saying magicians don't have problems, I'm saying MAGICIANS HANDLE THEIR SHIT.
ReplyDeleteShit shouldn't get this bad in magicians' lives. Early on, yeah, as you work through initiations, your life can be a hot mess. But as you progress, you learn to spot the messes before they get hot, and hello, we're magicians. We handle shit in candle-lit rooms with clouds of incense and spoken words to invisible companions.
For over a century, these buffoons have been baptizing peas and stabbing watermelons.
Masters of the Western Occult Tradition my ASS.
You're absolutely right RO in your last message -- but it doesn't invalidate the whole Golden Dawn system just because Griffin and other act like pricks. I do Golden Dawn work, and I'm one of your students as well. If I suddenly decided to create my own "order" called the "Neoplatonic Order of Hermeticists," and acted like Griffin (and somehow your curses didn't work on me, which even you must admit could happen), that wouldn't invalidate your own work.
ReplyDeleteThe point is, you're comparing _you_, as RO, to the Golden Dawn _as a whole_. That's not fair... The Golden dawn has been around for a century, yes, and has had many members who live up to what you're saying, and many hat haven't. That's part of the nature of being around for a century, even if you're very good (and the GD system is not perfect). Your system has been around for a decade, yet even in that time I bet you've had some students who were jerks.
Dude, I respect the hell outta you, but you realize you're condemning a whole type of magic because some of its members can't get their shit together, right?
ReplyDeleteI mean, according to what I understand of what you wrote, my magician card is now revoked because I do Golden Dawn stuff, even though I have nothing whatever to do with the Griffin stuff other than failing to curse him... I just don't feel comfortable cursing him, despite him being a prick, just like I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing a brick through his window.
Why are my failures as a magician (allowing people to claim they are part of the GD and act like pricks) somehow a mark that my methods are no good, while your problems as a magician (not finishing your courses in a timely way) just shit that magicians go through?
Besides that, the whole baptizing peas and stabbing melons stuff? Not part of the GD's methods. Wanna know how I know? I have a big book called "The Complete System of Golden Dawn Magic," and it ain't in there... What you're really complaining about is that some people did something that you don't like, so you're going to tar all GD folks with the same brush.
Like I said above, I respect the hell out of you, but that's wack.
Ok, Anonymous, I know who you are I think, and I appreciate where you're coming from.
ReplyDeleteFirst, you're the one comparing my Work and my problems to the GD. If that's not fair, don't do it. Since you're one of my students, here's some Hermetic wisdom for free: Hypocrisy saps your strength, robs you of your power. Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. The hypocrite's mind is divided against itself. That's why I apologize when I'm wrong, it makes me stronger.
Second, I'm not invalidating the entire system, I don't have that authority.
I'm pointing out that the GD has established itself in the minds of modern occultists as the outer face of the Masters of the Western Occult Tradition, and yet they can't do shit about their infighting.
I'm calling on the real Secret Chiefs to fix this shit.
Ok, ok, that's fair... I don't want to start fighting with you. If you know who I am, then you know I have good reasons for being anonymous that have nothing to do with cowardice or wanting to trick you (not that you implied that).
ReplyDeleteSorry if I went too far... But I'm sure you can see how writing that all GD magicians have their magician cards revoked might make people think you're invalidating the whole system.
By the way, no matter what other things I might say, you're still doing a good thing with your work... Thanks.
I totally understand about being anonymous, and would like to point out that its very necessity is a strong argument against the claims of the Golden Dawn.
ReplyDeleteI'm really just pointing out that the GD isn't what it claims to be. This post is entirely about undermining the image of the Golden Dawn in the minds of anyone who reads it. Revoking the magician card of the GD? That's pure rhetorical device right there.
I don't want anyone to be able to look at the GD and think, "Hey, that's what Rosicrucian Hermetics is supposed to be." That idea is a huge insult to Rosicrucianism and Hermetics in general.
There's a Christian concept that the GD ought to embrace. It's called REPENTANCE. That's where you recognize that you've done something wrong, and you stop doing it. You turn away from the bad behavior and move towards doing something right instead.
ReplyDeleteDavid Griffin and Nick Farrell and Zink and Zalewski and even Morgan owe the entire Western Occult community an apology.
Well, hell, I'm all for undermining the GD as the only source of hermetic rosicrucianism -- I'm a member of SRIA, and we were around LONG before the Golden Dawn, but do we get any respect? No!
ReplyDelete(Not to mention all the other completely valid forms of rosicrucianism out there)
Hell I have not been at this horseshit for a century! I only look that old. But i agree the traditional Golden Dawn, done the way it was done, is pants. You have to use it as the start, not the end.
ReplyDeleteI think doing a ritual to take out Griffin is probably a waste of time. I have a few other more important things to do (and write). It is easier just to let his own magic damage him. The guy invoked Maat against everyone and promptly was cast out from civilised society and now has been forced to live in the desert of Nevada. Then he ordered his minions to attack me and King over the Water on Amazon. Book sales went from dismal to brilliant. No doubt for his next trick he will summon a dust demon to eat him. Anyway with him using his magic and energy against himself in this way I don't have to do anything. I can do something more interesting like floss
Rufus you have attacked the entire Golden Dawn community and you've left me no choice but tattle to Dave
ReplyDeleteDavid Griffin and Nick Farrell and Zink and Zalewski and even Morgan owe the entire Western Occult community an apology.
ReplyDeleteI take that back. Nick's been presenting the GD as a bunch of philosophers with tech that works, but not the Masters of the Western Occult Tradition, exactly what I think the GD should be doing.
Who ever said the GD were masters of the Western Occult Tradition? I mean, besides the GD? And, what the hell IS the "Western Occult Tradition?"
ReplyDeleteSeriously, there must be at least a few different traditions all shaken (not stirred) together there, and the GD did the most shaking (not stirring). I still practice that "tradition," but I'm not in any way going on like it's the only way, the best way, or whatever. It's a way. The GD has some cool stuff going on. It also has some badly translated Hebrew, some misattributed uh.. well, attributes (can't think of a better word), and it certainly has proven that it does nothing in particular to "balance" the psyche. It's ALWAYS been a contentious bunch of people. Then again, so are magicians, in general. We've both known a couple. Hell, I still get suggestions from Facebook that I should "friend" Alla Ra Adam. I don't even want to "friend" PART of Ra Adam, much less Alla him...
I like the way you take sides RO, so are you implying that Farrell and Morgan are damn martyrs of this? c'mon man, take sides is easy but these two bastards have done their dirty work too.
ReplyDeleteVL
VL, look above at my earlier comment:
ReplyDelete"I think Morgan and Nick are good folks, but they aren't saints or martyrs either."
My biggest beef here is that the GD claims a huge portion of the mental real estate in the modern occult world. They have claimed to be the outer face of the Rosicrucian current. They claim to represent the Secret Chiefs, and the Secret Chief lore says the Secret Chiefs are the entities guarding and shepherding the spiritual evolution of the entire Western Culture.
I'm siding with Nick and Morgan and any of the others who are saying the GD is NOT the Outer Face of the Rosicrucian Tradition, because obviously, it ain't.
Fra SL: LOL! Yeah, exactly.
ReplyDeleteDear RO, try this experiment: send Nick your material and expect it to be on the web the next day.
ReplyDeleteVL.
Hey Rufus,
ReplyDeleteI understand your frustration at the current situation, which, as you point out, has been going on for years, to varying degrees of publicity. I think it frustrates us all, and it reflects badly on both the GD and the wider occult community.
It is, of course, not unique to the GD. The OTO and various other groups have been at each other's throats to some degree or other, and they are just as well-known as the GD is. I think whenever you get a popular "brand name" there will be people who want to abuse it, for money, power, or any other reason. These people are not, as we have all come to realise, real adepts.
I'm sure there are many people within the GD tradition with the capability to magically deal with this situation, but then we get into the questionable area of violating the Neophyte oath not to perform "evil magic" (not that this has stopped some people, and, of course, the term itself is open to debate).
As Nick suggested, often times there is no need to do anything at all, other than concentrate on the Great Work, as we should all be doing.
As others have highlighted, a half dozen people arguing on the internet is not reflective of the entire tradition, which includes thousands of initiates in various orders and many more solitary magicians. Most are too busy with their own lives and the Work to worry about certain unscrupulous individuals.
The GD is just one tradition of a wide variety in the Western Mystery Tradition. It's not necessarily better (or worse) than any of the others.
LVX,
Dean.
This cracked my shit up.
ReplyDeleteI also think you're right.
When I set out to study the Western Ceremonial Tradition, I had bought a lot of their propaganda. I thought they were, if not the whole of the tradition, at least the only extant branch. It might have taken me much, much longer to learn otherwise if I had not been fortunate enough to be pointed toward your blog very early on.
And while I certainly don't think for a minute that nuts like those involved in the current kerfuffle make up the whole, or even the majority, of the tradition ... they do make enough noise (and parallel their historical predecessors well enough) that those of us who are not involved in the tradition ought be forgiven for not knowing the difference. The sane ones need to be louder and more public than the loonies.
VL:
ReplyDeleteTry this experiment: Eliminate Nick if he's such a bad guy. Demonstrate conclusively that the GD is what it claims to be.
You and I both know it's not the manifestation of the true Rosicrucian current. You know the troubles it has. You know the Secret Chiefs for what they really are, and what they are not.
Nick and David aside, are you saying the GD is everything it claims to be?
Going back to the magic itself, is there something in the GD repertoire that has the power to eliminate rogue orders or not? It seems to me that if it were what it claims to be, Nick would have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning. David would have pointed that Wand of Power at him and blasted him a good one. I have no doubt he's done so, and look at the results. "Not a penny the worse," to quote Crowley.
And Morgan's made some noises about oaths stopping him from cursing with black magic. Horse shit, you can eliminate rogue Orders without cursing anyone, without resorting to black magic or demons or any of that shit if you've got the Secret Chiefs at your back.
You know I respect you as a magician, VL. I respect your loyalty, too. I've never kept my opinions about the GD in general a secret. You're one of those beautiful magicians who are members of the GD who shines in spite of their membership, not because of it.
I'm telling it to you like a brother, the way I'd want you to tell it to me: You're supporting an Order that can't handle its shit. If you were up against a brujo defending your family, I'd be shocked if that brujo had a spirit left in their repertoire to conjure by the time you were finished with them. But David, for all his claims of having the Chiefs backing him and giving him new magic, can't stop Nick.
Based on that evidence, the GD doesn't have the power it claims. The mythos is a lie. I'm left wondering, Who's standing by the lie, and who's telling the truth?
RO,
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the state of things in the GD Tradition these days, I will tell you something, up to the point I'm allowed to talk.
If you remember, I'm also Initiate of AMORC and I already reached the Adept level; also I am a Martinist Adept, I'm about to enter in a very Inner Circle too.
In the Archives of these Orders, we have documents I'm not allowed to even mention the names of them (please, don't come out with the shit of "probe it" bla bla) since I have nothing to probe to anyone.
These documents are very old and they come from the sources themselves, rooted in Europe. We have in our possesion Documents tnat exist nowhere else, and Nick and Dave aside, yes, the Golden Dawn is what it claims to be.
Hey, these days you can even read or hear that some guys will say "hey crowley wasn't a bad guy", when in reality he caused a great damage to the Order. On the other hand, the Rosicrucian Tradition has lineage, which I will not discuss here even if someone comes out asking for "proof", that's bullshit, again, I have nothing to probe to anyone.
There are documents that Nick Farrel nor anyone being outsiders of the TMO and AMORC will ever have the opportunity to even see, and I do brag I have them.
VL.
By the way, I invite anyone here to go to an AMORC's Lodge to request for "proof"; or even, to request to go into a Martinist Lodge and request for "proof" of the existence of the masters in Europe.
ReplyDeleteNo one, not a single adept will tell anyone nothing; if you don't believe me, locate logdes on the Website and go, i invite you to do that.
VL.
VL, at this point nothing less than wands at high noon, last magician standing will prove that the GD is what it claims to be, Old West style. :D
ReplyDeleteRO,
ReplyDeleteWell, if it's going to be old west style, you know me then...my cannons are always ready: trespassers will be prosecuted and punished mercylesly. (by the way, I'm not talking personally to you in this matter)
VL.
"Try this experiment: send Nick your material and expect it to be on the web the next day."
ReplyDeleteActually the only person who has ever threatened to break copyright was David Griffin who threatened to scan all my books and stick them online. RO's course is protected by copyright law (same as my books). The real AO material was written in 1905 and public domain. Griffin's claim to own the material because he named his order with a similar name (note his research did not extend to using the real AO name) just does not work on the material plane as well as it does in his own head.
When did the possession of documents become the meter by which we judge magicians? There are a lot of "paper adepts" out there. Documents are nice, and they are important for recording and passing on teachings, but having X number of documents does not reveal the magical efficacy of anyone.
ReplyDeleteLVX,
Dean.
@VL, now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!
ReplyDeleteAll this "defense of the Rose" bullshit blog posts... makes me puke a little bit in my mouth.
Grow a pair, GD! :D
@Dean, Results be thy proof! Nukes! Nukes!
ReplyDeleteAlright RO, you and your gang win.
ReplyDeleteYes!
ReplyDeleteHey wait, you're not going to nuke me too, are you? :D
@VL,
ReplyDeleteIn order to be a good magician, you also have to have a good grasp on logic and clear thinking. If you can't see the problems with your claims of secret documents proving the HOGD is the proper Golden Dawn and completely valid, then you don't deserve to be called a Practicus (or any higher grade).
What if I was to say that, as a very high-ranking Mason (which I am by the way non-Masons measure these things), I have been privy to ultra-secret documents which prove, absolutely, that David Griffin is a tremendous con man and only the Ciceros have the True Golden Dawn? And also, the documents say I am a total sex machine?
By your "logic," you would be forced to believe that that was true.
Once you start believing my unsubstantiated unproducible documents, I'll start believing yours. Otherwise, don't bother trying to convince those of us who don't have your ultra-secret personal knowledge.
@ Anonymous
ReplyDeleteI believe VL stated explicitly in his post that he would not prove anything, and therefore you are not required to believe anything he says.
All he actually said was that he had some secret documents. What that accomplishes is to lend some weight to his opinion that the GD is the real deal but only to people who already know VL and have respect for his opinions already. RO is apparently one of those people who knows VL and has some respect for him, therefore he may put some value in this statement.
So by all means, don't believe a word he says as he is not trying to convince you. It's no skin off anyone elses back and no logic arguments are being made here.
Actually, I was thinking about black magic and money.
ReplyDeleteI can help with money, Morgan. It's the easiest thing to make.
ReplyDeleteOk Rufus,
ReplyDeleteSo by your logic, I can take your materials, head out on the Internet and claim that I am your student and the sole inheritor of your teachings, then start as many shit-storms and flame wars as I want...
And you HAVE to accept it as representative of you, your teachings and your system. Because I'm starting flame wars in your name, therefore *I Am You*.
That is just ridiculous and you know it.
Let me assure you - these people you are talking about are NOT "the Golden Dawn." They are just a few asshats that take the GD material and try to shove it and themselves down everyone else's throats. Frankly, I'm surprised that someone with your intelligence has fallen for a bunch of pure grade-A BS.
I am a member of the Golden Dawn, and I know *hundreds* of fellow Fraters and Sorors. And not a single one of them participates in this online bullshit fest. Yet, you trash the entire tradition because you've been fooled into thinking these jerks "are the Golden Dawn" or somehow represent the tradition merely because they lay claim to it by their own authority.
Hey, if you're enjoying this non-sense, by all means have at it... :(
Oh and I hate to break it to you R.O. - I did not take the GD material and apply it to other systems. I am an active member of the Order to this very day, and I know the system to be just what it claims to be. And it works - very well. For the dozen or so failures you've encountered online, I could introduce you to hundreds of successes.
ReplyDeleteBut you can't see that, because all you ever hear from are the ones who failed the system. The ones who fight their wars with blog posts and internet flames. Those are the failures of the GD, not the success stories.
But I'm beginning to believe you just don't give a crap. You've glommed onto the failures, you think they "are the Golden Dawn", so that's all you're going to see. Very dissapointing for someone who is into the occult, and should know full well that REAL Golden Dawners believe that the Highest is "that which naught by Silence can express." That means you won't hear from them the way you do those who don't get that simple point.
R.O. - you keep saying the GD isn't what "it claims to be." What exactly do you think it claims to be, and what is your source for this?
ReplyDeleteAaron, is it still shocking after all these years that sometimes I believe stupid things?
ReplyDeleteThere are people who don´t do the work and people who do it.
ReplyDeleteI left the GD group I was, but never left the practice.
I have seen groups in too many areas each one asking to be the "owners of some law".
So I just left all but kept contact with the good ones.
The "good ones", are not fixed to this or that group. They "are" and this is good.
@Aaron:
ReplyDelete"But I'm beginning to believe you just don't give a crap. You've glommed onto the failures, you think they "are the Golden Dawn", so that's all you're going to see. Very dissapointing for someone who is into the occult, and should know full well that REAL Golden Dawners believe that the Highest is "that which naught by Silence can express." That means you won't hear from them the way you do those who don't get that simple point."
You're not the first GD guy I've seen saying your GD is the REAL GD and everyone else's is bullshit. I've floated the idea that the GD is like Christianity, with multiple denominations claiming the True Doctrine. DG's HOGD is one denomination, Farrell's MOAA is another, and to a degree every Order will be their own denomination in some ways.
As a Christian, I have to accept that I share my belief with a lot of asshats. I'm ashamed of a lot of them, proud of a few, and I put up with the rest. I've said, "They aren't REAL Christians because..." blah blah blah on many occasions, but they are Christians, just ones I don't like to admit are part of the tribe.
I'd like to see someone clean the GD house the way the Catholics are finally cleaning the pedophiles out of the clergy.
I'd also like to see Christianity get rid of the Westboro Baptist Church, once and for all.
And as long as I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony for each of my daughters, and my kids' college education totally paid for.
@Aaron:
ReplyDelete"Oh and I hate to break it to you R.O. - I did not take the GD material and apply it to other systems. I am an active member of the Order to this very day, and I know the system to be just what it claims to be. And it works - very well. For the dozen or so failures you've encountered online, I could introduce you to hundreds of successes."
Sigh. I understand what you're saying. I know the GD works for a lot of people. I understand it mentally. It's just that in my heart, where the passions reside, I see the crap and want to set it all on fire.
So it's not fair to condemn the entire GD for the actions of a few. I apologize, and I'll strive not to fall into the trap again in the future.
Sorry, Frater, for getting my panties in a twist yet again. lol But I felt it was time for someone to finally speak up for the Golden Dawn Silent Majority.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as I'm sure you've read on my blog by now, I want to make it clear I'm not calling my Order the real deal at the expense of other Orders. In fact, I'm talking about *individuals* who are taking it upon themselves to be the asshats. The GD Silent Majority - the good folks who have not failed the system - span across all Orders, Independent Temples, study groups and solitary practitioners.
I just wonder why David chose to blow this thing up to these immense proportions. If I'd been in his position I would have just ignored Nick's books, announced the "New Magic" revision by the Secret Chiefs and pivoted into it without skipping a beat. Never let 'em see you sweat. If it comes up, say, "yes, the Chiefs already knew about Farrell's impending book, that would profane our rites, but it will avail them nothing, for we are already in possession of the next revelation..."
ReplyDeleteMan, he just doesn't get it. He should be playing the "shrouded in secrecy" gambit for all it's worth. It's the natural image to play when you've got Ascended Masters in your program. It's a secret order! Be mysterious! Every facet of your program is shrouded in secrecy. Answer everything with "we can neither confirm nor deny..." These long whiny screeds in multiple blogs - hell, the audience is already making noises about these tirades being unbecoming of a spiritual leader. Does anyone in that Order know anything about marketing? Gah...!
@Aaron, no worries.
ReplyDelete@Joe, It's the persecution complex. It's an integral part of his marketing plan. He needs a bogeyman to hold up as the main bad guy to his Order to keep them convinced they're the underdog. Typical Christian tactic. Even in the States where 80% of the population is Christian, the fundies scream about how there's a war on Christianity and we're under attack. It keeps the flock united. If he keeps them focused on real or imaginary external enemies, they won't pay too much attention to what's going on in their own order.
I also think it impresses the ancient italian wiccan secret chiefs that he's such a badass to stand up against the evil machinations of Nick Farrrell's global conspiracy. They seem to be a provincial lot.
Fascinating discussion. I have some questions and a comment:
ReplyDelete1) If David's Secret Chiefs are so wonderful, why can't they put out this "new magic" in several languages?
2) If this "new magic" is so valuable, why doesn't David release the original text instead of having to translate it?
3) If David's Secret Chiefs are so powerful, why do they need David and his cult members to defend their group? Why can't they do it themselves and send "a deadly and hostile current of will?" Or are they just powerless wimps?
4) Why doesn't David talk more about the "Vatican hit squads" he claimed were out to kill him and the leaders of his sex cult? Perhaps he could talk about how his claim almost resulted in getting Pantheacon kicked out of the hotel they have been at for years? Perhaps he could provide some evidence for these Vatican hit squads? Perhaps he could explain why he thought he'd get hundreds of people to hear him at Pantheacon but only about 50 showed up? Perhaps he could mention why he's banned from Pantheacon?
David and his personality cult are attracting people to the G.D., and his antics are sending more people away. But the real inner contacts of the power behind the real Golden Dawn just laugh at his douchery, his identification with Captain Kirk, and his foolishness. When the student is ready the teacher will appear. Those who seek the real Golden Dawn will get past their revulsion at David Griffin and, one day, will find the real Order.
@Anon,
ReplyDeleteDude, really? Even I can answer these.
1) Secrecy is a valued coin in their world.
2) Same.
3) Haven't you been paying attention? They're just human adepts, in a Secret Society that's at least similar to the GD. Haven't you noticed NO ONE in the GD curses anyone with magic? No matter how much I beg.
4) LOL! Funny stuff, right there. I'm sure there's a perfectly paranoid delusional reason behind all that. The Vatican Death Squads bought off Pantheacon, ooo, Pantheacon is a FRONT for the Death Squads, an elaborate plot to make him look stupid in public. Their secret plan was to give him a chance to appear in public, thus ensuring their success! :D