Friday, July 06, 2012

Yay, Faith in Fate Debate!

So Jason disagrees with me about FATE.

Or... does he?
Basically, I reject the notion that this is all some pre-written fucked up kabuki dance where  there are people we are meant to be with, things we are meant to do, and things we are not meant to do. If that fatalistic idea of God as micro-manager is true, then any alteration thereof is also part of that plan so it is not even worth thinking that way. If it is not true, then we have to take some responsibility for ourselves, including our initiatory paths.
That's the quote I'm aiming at. Especially the italicized parts.

Jason's expressing the belief that "fatalism" and "free will" are "opposed." One must negate the other.

But... think about it.

Jason and I agree that there is the Body and the Not-Body aspects of the Complete Human Entity. There is something that continues to exist after the body is gone. Conjurations of the dead, exorcisms of the same, veneration of the dead as saints, ascended masters, or what-have-you tend to indicate the belief that the death of the flesh is not the end of the entity.

The Body and the Not-Body coexist while we're living. It's an intimate partnership between two beings operating on different levels of existence. The Not-Body gets certain desires and necessities met, and the Body likewise gets to claim its due. It's symbiotic, and it goes both ways.

Does the Body have Free Will? Can it make me do anything it wants? Am I its puppet?

Or is it Fated to do what I tell it to? Can it deny my commandments? Can it refuse to obey?

The only honest answer to any of these questions is "sometimes."

And I say that's because "fate" and "free will" don't matter in the discussion of the human entity. It's the wrong language to talk about the relationship between the physical and spiritual manifestation of the human being.

I think the relationship between the Body and the Not-Body parts of the self is very much an analogy of the relationship between the Source and the Image of the Source, between God and Man. God-the-micromanager is really the Big Chief, and he really sets everything in stone the way it has to be. And then he manifests in it, and becomes His Own Self and Not His Own Self at the same time. He follows his will and materializes, becoming us. His Will manifests through "us" the same way "our" will manifests through the flesh.

So is everything predestinated? I think so. But it can't happen without us. Yes, it will happen, but as a result of us making it happen. And we do it because we really want it to happen.

Fate? Free Will?

Do you feel fated? Because I don't. I feel like I get to do what I want when I want to. And things always seem to fall together as if there were a plan. A purpose. Maybe that's my Body framing the experience so it can be processed logically and stored for increased probability of survival in a hostile world.

Does it matter? Ultimately, it does not.

Back to Jason's main points:
If that fatalistic idea of God as micro-manager is true, then any alteration thereof is also part of that plan so it is not even worth thinking that way.
Why isn't it worth thinking that way? You're doing what you meant to do, exactly what you want to do. And if you don't want to do it, you can do something else, and you can't fuck anything up, no matter what. Knowing whatever you want to do is the Will of God makes you more free and powerful than anything else I've experienced. And knowing that even if you're "wrong," it will be ok anyway?

I think it's totally worth thinking that way.

And second point:
If it is not true, then we have to take some responsibility for ourselves, including our initiatory paths.
If it's true, we still have to take some responsibility for ourselves, including our initiatory paths, because the Will of God doesn't manifest without us making it happen.

I'm a relatively powerful magician, in a lot of ways. I can make pretty much anything happen that I want to, within reason, almost always through totally "natural-looking" means, even though I totally cheat by calling on powerful relatives in high places who understand me better than I understand myself. 

But the magic doesn't do itself. The wands don't up and cast the circle, the spirits don't conjure themselves, and the whiskey doesn't make itself a libation without my immortal will and my flesh working together with these material spirits, any more than the body fasts on its own to bring spiritual attainment, or the spirit wills to ascend on its own without the Source willing it to ascend at the same time.