The HGA conversation rolls on, as it always has, and always will. I'm hesitant to continue to throw my cents in the pot, and hesitant not to as well. The discussion is heading the way it usually does, interpretations offered, categorizations of others' experiences are being made, and comments about the veracity of those experiences are being bandied about.
And now we have what looks like someone (John, I'm looking at you) thinking of conjuring their Evil Genius from Agrippa's third book, chapter 26 to serve as their chthonic version of the HGA.
And it might even work, who fucking knows?
You see? It gets complicated.
For me, the SA/HGA I work with is sufficient. It's a spirit with supercelestial, celestial, terrestrial, and chthonic attributes. It functions well across the spectrum of experiential existence. Some folks will doubt my experiences, others will validate them, and in the end, it doesn't matter for shit.
My biggest concern at this point is that all the conversation and words and terms and definitions will rob people of the actual experience of the spirit. It's happened before. I think it's a waste of time.
Figure out which spirit (or which interpretation of the spirit) you want to work with, and do it. That's all that matters. Onward and upward. Or inward. Or whatever.
Do magic. Be happy.
Head for the Red: The ongoing adventures and insights of a magician's attempts to accomplish the Great Work.
I for one can independently verify your K&C.
ReplyDeleteRemember the phone conversation we had a few years ago when my angel had a message for you, and than told me to tell you to ask your angel to confirm?
HGA's talk to one another. How cool is that?
Uh sorry, it seems that I tend to inspire controversy every time I share my thoughts on a subject I have no first hand experience... yet.
ReplyDeleteI will say no more on the subject. Time to keep silent.
Nah, it's good to challenge ideas. If you do what I think you'll do, you'll be putting Ali's hypothesis to the test.
ReplyDeleteI have a lot of opinions and theories. In my opinion and theory, what you're doing is stupid and dangerous.
I could be wrong though.
Just for clarification I am certainly not encouraging people to go trying and conjure their Evil Genius. While the name-finding methods of Agrippa may correspond to the various spirit guardians of the near eastern magical traditions, it is untested as these are two separate traditions.
ReplyDeleteWhile Agripa was most likely influenced by the magical traditions seeping into Europe via the Middle East and its preservation of the Graeco-Egyptian world, the methods of discovering one's personal djinn (which is not attributed with being evil in any way) are different.
My only point is that many traditions indicate that we have more than one guiding spirit in our lives and while the HGA is a powerful force other traditions indicate that there are other spirits of a different nature that are equally helpful and also attached to each one of us personally. Arabian mages have been working with their personal djinn and their holy guardian angel for quite some time and find the balanced approach suitable to their work.
"many traditions indicate that we have more than one guiding spirit in our lives and while the HGA is a powerful force other traditions indicate that there are other spirits of a different nature that are equally helpful"
ReplyDeleteInteresting what roles ones "core" of spirits/entities play, I find. I have a dozen perhaps, only a few of which are very active; my HGA, on the other hand, is everything, always. Some of the others have been with me for a very long time and are good and loyal friends; many of them were actively involved in bringing me to where I am today; but my HGA is the only one I surrender everything to, without question.Completely different relationship. That may not be true or right for others, I suppose, and that's okay by me.
Conjureman Ali, I don't remember now if anyone has talked about the Genius of Agrippa and the Djinn being more like one another than the Evil Daimon and the Djinn. I think those are the two roles that correspond between Agrippa and the East.
ReplyDeleteI could make an argument about the Evil Daimon being the Djinn and not really evil using Agrippa's views on Goetia as support, pointing out that his take on all terrestrial spirits was that they were evil. The planetary Tables he gives have Intelligences and Spirits, and the Spirits are said to be Evil by Agrippa, but they aren't really. They're just raw forces who will do what needs to be done without regard for the consequences, unless you work with them through the Intelligence.
In brief, Agrippa attributes "evil" to spirits who are not necessarily evil in practice.
I don't agree with this, but I can see how I would support the argument if I were making it.
The thing is, the Genius in the Natal is there to make sure all the things you are purposed to do are accomplished, while the evil daimon is the opposer, the adversary, the one you conjure to execute Murphy's Law, making sure that "everything that can go wrong, will go wrong." Terrible curse to exercise on someone.