This morning, I woke up and saw the post Jason made about Lon DuQuette's "If we believed" youtube video.As a Christian, I'm deeply offended. As a magician, I'm sorely disappointed. As a man, I'm incredibly pissed off.
But I get it. I understand why people like Lon have such a deep hatred for all things "Christian." They're spiritually retarded. They can't help it. They see all the evils men have done in the name of Christianity, and ignoring the fact that man has done exactly the same in the name of pagan gods for millenia, they blame the belief system.
Sure, that would be the same as saying all Sufis are terrorists, all Runar folk are nazis, all Thelemites are woman-beating heroin addicts. But they don't care. They're so wrapped up in their disfunction that they can't see it. Maybe some priest or pastor molested them or something. I don't know. Whatever it is, I'm sick of it, disgusted by it, and generally displeased. Grow up already.
I'm getting rid of all my Lon Milo DuQuette stuff in protest of his public airing of hate-filled intolerance, his wanton attack on a belief system that is, if you really look at Thelema, the core of his own system. I forgive him, but I will not support him or any other person who perpetuates the inter-religious warfare that fuels ignorance and pushes people further apart.
I think it was Kenneth Grant who was walking beside Crowley one day and accosted a priest. Crowley berrated him, and was mortified when Grant took his writings seriously and actually attacked some guy in the street because of his beliefs. Crowely knew better.
Intolerant bigotry has no place in a magician's world view. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Paganism, and Zoroastrianism have all played active roles in forming the system of magic we use. Attacking one is retarded.
Head for the Red: The ongoing adventures and insights of a magician's attempts to accomplish the Great Work.
It's a shame. LMD was one of the ordaining bishops at my Ordination. He's a genuinely nice guy, and has a good sense of humor. And the whole time he was with us (a genuinely Christian oriented group), he was very polite and genial.
ReplyDeleteIt could be that this is something along the lines of a crowleyesque rant. It could also be there's deeper meanings to the lyrics. They are there to provoke a response, and perhaps not just an angry one.
It could be that as a fellow Freemason, I'm not supposed to speak badly about a brother.
Hmm. I think Scott is on to something. I think perhaps Lon is simply being a "spoon" and stirring things up, and having a pit of fun at the same time.
ReplyDeleteFreemasonry, especially the higher degrees, seem to be centered around the theme of religious pluralism, through the separation of religious authority and influence from governing powers.
Which makes it doubly ironic to see Thelemites with their nose up his rear, until now.
Isn't it interesting to see how "we" react when one of "our" leaders finally says or does something we don't agree with?
Now who will they turn too?
If we can't trust our leaders to lead us the way we require them too, we may just have to do it ourselves, perhaps that is in fact the point?
Or maybe he was just having some fun being a sacred clown.
Joe, if he'd sung a song like that about anything but Christianity, he'd be ridden out of the occult community on a rail. That degree of bigotry about Jews, blacks, or anything else would have people up in arms. But Christianity? Who cares.
ReplyDeleteHe's just a spoon, stirring things up, and having fun at the same time.
Maybe you'd see it differently if he was calling soldiers baby killers. I mean, you do realize that's me he's saying this about. He's not differentiating between Christians with an occult understanding of the symbolism of the religion and those who use it for political or financial ends. He's talking about all of Christianity.
What would you do if someone thought it was funny to sing a song like that about you?
Exactly, also so many great Magi have been Christians, Johannes Trithemius, Agrippa, Dee, it's a very long list. Meanwhile Lon's beloved thelema hasn't even come close to such a rich legacy. Of course the hypocrisy of calling Christianity 'racist' and 'woman hating' while following a religion founded by a bigot who viewed women as being nothing than disposable pleasure?
ReplyDeleteWell Rufus,
ReplyDeleteWhen Christian's bash the heck out of pagans and occultist, do you get up in their face or just rant about it here?
As for Lon, he does a song called "it ain't necessarily so." Which is much more to the point, I think he was driving at. You don't have to believe what you've been brought up to believe. It is like Hyatt's statement that most religious beliefs are basically worshiping one's own preconditioned neurons. Which I agree with. Most of the time, most people, simply believe what their parents taught them to believe. Lon is likely trying to teach those wrapped up in Christian guilt and fear that they can break free of that. He just did it poorly and I do not defend the song.
So many people into the occult get side swiped by culturalized Christian dogma that it gets annoying. I understand Lon's utter frustration.
Though I must agree the song is over the edge and understand your offense. I'm a bigger fan of his blasphemy song as it hits every religion anyone has ever heard of. I can't recall if it hits Thelema. I was laughing too hard. Nearly wrecked the car going down I-5.
However, I do not dismiss a man for a single fault. There would be no one left.
POS...
ReplyDeleteExcept for me right? Cause I'm perfect.
Right?
Not "if" but "when."
ReplyDeleteIt happens every day my friend. I am constantly bombarded with aggressive anti-Pagan propaganda.
I am currently a student of a Baptist Seminary, taking evangelism, and getting an "A"
I can only describe it as a breeding ground for hateful bias and bigotry. The statements being made about other religious faiths in an academic environment is indescribably atrocious, yet validated by accreditation.
I smile, I nod, and I graduate.
Being ridiculed, and slandered as a devil worshiper, comes with the territory. And I have been called a baby killer several times, more often for religious reasons than military.
It seems like every day someone wants to know about my religious views, but they don't, not really.
They only want to know if I am potential recruit or not. when I tell them what I believe, they turn on a dime and attack me viciously.
Let me make this clear, I am asked, then I am attacked for my answers. I don't start these conversations.
The last time a taught a class on Wicca, they gathered in the parking lot and hassled my students, with video cameras.
They came to the door yesterday, again. And the conversation goes south very quickly, ending with me burning in hell for all eternity.
I can't go the "our" section of the book store without being told that I "shouldn't be in that section."
And that guy has the gall to tell MY CHILDREN they were going to hell "with daddy"
At the Chaplains Academy, an instructor told me there was no such thing as PTSD, because David and his Army slaughtered thousands, and they didn't suffer ill effects, because it was a "righteous kill" just like the people I killed in Iraq was righteous because they were all "Pagans."
I have been hearing it my whole life. What do I do *WHEN* it happens?
I smile, and I turn the other cheek. Because they don't stand a chance against my prayers.
And your all tore up about one guy who sang a song (two whole sentences) that hurt your feelings?
With all due respect my friend, stop wining.
Do they know you're a pagan at the seminary? And they let you in?
ReplyDeleteMeh. Good tune. Lyrics are very ill-fitting. I've heard worse attacks from local baptists where I live. Didn't even raise an eyebrow. Ignorance and intolerance like that eventually burns itself out.
ReplyDeleteWDr. Joe you've a hell of a lot more patience that I have concerning the nosey chaplin. In my family be beat people who do that to our kids to bloody pulps. You never say such things too or about a child regardless if they're true or not.
ReplyDeleteAlphonsus -- I know a woman whose son was diagnosed with cancer. His wife immediately left him. He moved into an apartment building. The women next door fell in love with him and moved in, essentially to take care of him. His former pastor called this woman, whom he had never even met, and informed her that her son was in hell for living with a woman he wasn't married to. Even if you believe that, why would you do it?
ReplyDeleteI am very non-violent. I'd have had a hard time not punching him in the nose for being that mean and I barely knew the woman in question.
That said, I have some non-violent Christian friends that may have punched him in the nose too.